I grew up with the idea that you can lose “all your money” in the stock market. I’m sure many people did. Movies about the stock market don’t do much to put us at ease - if it doesn’t end with someone losing their last penny, it’s not very entertaining.
This week, Nadia got us thinking about what it really means for your portfolio when there’s a stock market crash. Her anxiety was provoked by Rich Dad, Poor Dad author Robert Kiyosaki, who stated in a recent interview that all money is fake and we should all buy gold and silver. Fat Wallet veterans can guess how we take this news.
We talk about what we actually mean by a stock market crash and the different ways that could affect your portfolio. We also share some gems from our Twitter community.
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Nadia
I was wondering if you guys could help ease my mind a little.
I've been wanting to do a lump sum deposit into my TFSA and split it between the Satrix top 40 and the Satrix MSCI world. I have most of my TFSA in the Coreshares equally weighted but I think I've given up hope for that ETF and I'd like to cut it out once it's back in the green (if that happens).
When I was about to do my lump sum, I came across this article "Rich Dad Poor Dad' author warns South Africans of 'biggest financial bubble' ahead".
This made me a little nervous and got me thinking about a market crash. I don't know if I understand exactly what happens to all your investments when the market crashes. What will happen to my TFSA investments, my RA, Unit trust etc if the day comes where the markets crash.
What do you do in that situation? Do you just wait a few years for it to restore itself? Should you buy while the price is low and hope for it to climb up the ladder again? For example, if I had 50k in a Top 40 ETF, does this mean I could potentially lose that 50k if all those top 40 companies fall flat? Could this happen in a market crash or would it only be a few companies who take the plunge?
I think having a better grasp on what situations could unfold in the future would help me feel more confident about where I'd like to put my money and it'd help me understand what to do or how to handle things if shit hits the fan.
Thanks again for the amazing work you guys do. Honestly, I'd be completely lost without you.
@SammyJoeD
Lol I don't know but I'd like to think it's a closed system (don't ask me to elaborate, it makes sense to me that way), the money goes into someone else's pocket, say someone who has placed a bet on the option that the market will crash. 🤷
@andrevdwal
It hits the vehicle's windshield!
@Gerda04288858
Peeps panic and jump out of windows. Some unlock the safe and use their gun. Bad stuff.
@adelinerodd
Nothing
@tshidadoz1
When the market crashes, u loose all your investment... then other non- finance people laugh at you for wasting money by investing so it would have been better to chow it🤷🏽♀️
@adriaan222
Is the money invested in shares, or in cash form? I think it stops being money when in share form..
@OneAfrica12
It immediately stops growing. Waits for market recovery and grows very very slowly while investor recovers his losses.
Win of the week: Brett
My short journey started in 2017 when I became a financial advisor/broker (not an IFA) with Liberty. I’ve always wanted to be someone who made a positive difference in people’s lives and I thought that this was the perfect opportunity. I drove to all my clients, so this gave me loads of time to listen to podcasts. Then I started listening to your podcast.
This is when I started to understand what was actually going on. I looked deeper into the investments I was recommending, and the fees charged for them. I always knew there were fees involved, but I did not fully understand the impact they can have on your investments over time.
After asking my Regional Manager why the fees were so high I was told: “There are loads of costs from our side and you need to earn an income too.” This made me mad, but I did have to earn an income as I was earning on a commission-only basis (another huge problem with the industry).
When you start out, all you want is to be as successful as you can. But that success often comes at a cost to someone else, someone else can only afford to put R400 away per month for their retirement but would have to pay a fee of 4.2% per annum.
Most of the time they were not even aware of this. As Simon says, ”It should be illegal”. I also found out that 90% of active fund managers underperform the index, so I was basically being paid for poor returns since I could only provide active funds to clients.
It got tougher and tougher with each passing week and I felt the main reason I had started the job had been compromised. I could not carry on so I quit and hoped for the best.
Since then, I have learnt more and more about investing and saving, and even got a job at one of my favourite companies (10X Investments) as a consultant. I am paid like a normal person (basic salary) and don’t take any fees.
I believe the problem is not with the advisors/brokers/wealth managers. The problem is with the companies that do not educate or train them properly, especially when it comes to passive investing and low fees. It’s just sad to see that the people who need the most financial help are the ones being screwed over the most by the big companies.
I have never been happier since I left ’the dark side’ and believe that I have helped more people now than I ever would have previously. So I just wanted to say thank you to you and others, like Sam Beckbessinger, for shining the light.
Smith
I have a few thousand to invest over 10 to 15 years. Are the current open Barloworld KhulaSizwe shares are attractive in large volumes - in my situation between 1,000 and 10,000 shares.
Should I buy 1,000 shares only and invest in other investment vehicles. What would be suitable ETF to buy with the remaining money with relatively good returns in the next 10 to 15 years.
Robyn
In the five concepts podcast, you mentioned that dividends were paid out to you and you got R500 odd for doing nothing. I recently bought my first shares and ETFs through the Standard Bank Online Trading platform and want to know HOW the dividends are paid out? Does the money go into my trading account or into a personal account? Also, when are dividends usually paid? Is there a specific time of year or is it different for all companies?
Andy
I have a significant amount of money invested in the Liberty Evolve Capped Tracker, which is a Top 40 Tracker.
I’m not 100% sure the costs involved but the Financial advisor who sold it to me said that there are no costs but the returns are capped at 8% for the first three years (any returns in excess of 8% is shared with Liberty) and thereafter returns are uncapped.
The Effective Annual Cost (EAC) is at 0.6%.
The investment to date has grown by 3.1% pa (lost all first quarter gains in May unfortunately)
Should I exit as soon as I can (August 2019) and move it into the Satrix 40 on my STD BNK OST account? I will have to pay CGT on this, but I don't understand the product and not sure what costs are hidden.
Would you also suggest putting a portion of it into STXWD? The amount in question makes up about 40% of my net worth. I have the other 30% of my net worth in a residential flat in Cape town (Access bond completely paid off) earning a nice yield (11%pa) and the other 30% is made up of individual shares (more speculative smaller caps) on OST, an Allan Grey RA and a small amount in STXWDM.
Jonathan
My financial advisor friend says the better funds in SA have a proven track record of 10 years beating the index
Because 10x reports before fees while all other funds report after fees, 10x is obscuring a true comparison.
10x released a video today showing their performance comparison after fees, against "average fund managers", which isn't pretty for fund managers. However, he argues that calculating the average with a 10x hat on will include all the worst funds to push down the performance.
Could you comment on these figures from 10x, allan gray and investec opp:
10 year performance:
10x: 10.2 before fees
Allan gray: 12%
Inv opp: 11.3%T
Gerhard
“Most active managers have a hard time beating the index. Why do they have a hard time beating the index? The index owns the haystack. In the haystack are several needles. The index doesn’t need to go hunting to find the needles. They just bought the entire haystack and all those needles came with it. The S&P500, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook comes with it - all kinds of businesses that have incredible economics and tailwinds are just part of that haystack. An active manager goes and tries to find the needles in the haystack. What ends up happening is they also end up owning haystacks, but those haystacks have no needles in them. The index is too dumb to know it owns Amazon. The active manager is too smart to pay up for Amazon.”
Adam M sent a link that explains the debt snowball method we’ve discussed before.